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| Mortal Online; Basically a 3D UO | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 12 2009, 11:03 AM (2,448 Views) | |
| Lucretius | Jun 15 2009, 11:40 PM Post #21 |
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I stopped after reading... 1) No instances. 2) First person view only Just what we all need, another shitty no-skills attached zerg fest like Warhammer, except in this one... how about we make it so players can't really see shit? Great idea. This game is already a pile of shit, and huge failure. |
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| Sephs | Jun 15 2009, 11:57 PM Post #22 |
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HAY LUKREE KREE WANNA MAKE OUT? |
 "The strongest must rule if we are to survive" - Darth Malak | |
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| Dervin | Jun 16 2009, 12:43 AM Post #23 |
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you're such a fucking faggot |
| I am teh &b | |
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| Khatib | Jun 16 2009, 10:11 AM Post #24 |
You so CRAAZZYY!!
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If you think instances make a game better, you're a fucking moron. First person view is debatable. I kinda like it. It'll add a whole new aspect to the idea of stealth classes, since they won't get invisibility/stealth mode. It'll just be all about actually sneaking up on people who can't see you coming from behind them. And then you get bonus damage if you can pull it off. Edited by Khatib, Jun 16 2009, 10:12 AM.
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| I *still* hate Brett Favre. | |
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| Voyevoda | Jun 16 2009, 10:30 AM Post #25 |
RIP to the king of pop
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he's right luc you are a fucking moron.
Edited by Voyevoda, Jun 16 2009, 10:30 AM.
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| Sephs | Jun 16 2009, 12:11 PM Post #26 |
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wanna fuck |
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"The strongest must rule if we are to survive" - Darth Malak | |
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| Khatib | Jun 16 2009, 03:03 PM Post #27 |
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You so CRAAZZYY!!
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Goin back on topic with another wall of text -- This is a few months old -- posted by a Dev about the alpha back in December, and now they're in early beta, but pretty much covers the basics of what they're going for for a combat style in this game: Alpha Combat System in short This is a description of how combat works in the Alpha (2008-12-01). Everything is subject to change. First of all, many of the features described here might not sound much compared to a “regular single or multi-player FPSâ€, but are in fact a minor revolution to include in a MMO, and we are very proud of them! We are of course aware that there are a lot of stuff that could be improved if there were no limits, but please remember that a lot of things are made a certain way because it’s the only way, or because the system is the lesser of two evils Also, most features described here have corresponding in-game skills. These skills may affect everything from chances of success, damage, speed, or whether or not you are able to execute a certain action at all. But as they are too many to include and would further complicate the description, we decided to leave them out. Targeting You never have to target someone to attack them. Targeting is used for keeping track of enemies and/or friends, letting you see their names and status (although very limited). It is also used for certain skills and spells. - Hold target button and hover the target-crosshair over character(s) to see their names. - Release or tap target button to add target to target list (and make that target the “active targetâ€). - Target list shows each targets healthbar but without numbers. - Target list shows each targets flag/color. - Target list may contain several targets. Stamina The Stamina Bar has two values, Current Stamina and Max Stamina. Max Stamina is the long-term value (the "length" of the bar itself). It's representing your general condition and is affected by for instance how long you've been active without resting or food. The Max Stamina is your "stamina cap" that determines how much Current Stamina you can possibly have. It's worth to mention that the cap itself won't actually be affected until you've been going without rest for quite some time. Current Stamina is the short-term value (how "full" the bar is). Current Stamina is used for many actions, like jumping, sprinting and combat actions. It drains very quickly, but also refills in a short time. Your actions also slowly reduce the Max Stamina until you rest. Combat Stance In Combat Stance you are preparing yourself for incoming blows as well as for dashing them out yourself. You will automatically draw your pre-selected weapons (if any, unarmed fighting is also possible). In Combat Stance you move much slower by default, and sprinting costs more stamina. Your defense is higher and you have a small chance to auto-block incoming blows. Depending on what weapon you wield, there may be up to three different stances to switch between: 1. Default. Used for slashing/sweeping/cutting. 2. Thrust. Used to precisely aim thrusts and prods. 3. Ranged. Used for throwing and shooting. Attacking An attack consists of two "phases": charge and release. By holding the left mouse button (LMB) you charge your attack (for a minimum of 1/2 sec but for as long as you want). As long as you charge you are open for attacks, blocking as well as auto-blocking is disabled, although you may move around freely. When you release LMB, the attack comes instantly, followed by a "recovery" that leaves you vulnerable as you cannot strike or block/parry during that time either. Charging currently does not affect amount of damage (it probably will affect it slightly later on) but enables you to fully control the attack, as you’ll strike instantly upon release. The two phases are also used when simply clicking the LMB, although they are handled as one seamless move: The attack will be charged and then immediately released when the charge is completed (minimum 1/2 sec). Running and attacking will result in a “power strike†that is different depending on the weapon you wield, but it drains a lot of stamina. The first thing you’ll learn in MO’s combat is that timing is crucial, and simply spamming the LMB won’t help you in any way. The slight time it takes to charge an attack (whether you hold or click the LMB) makes the combat feel a bit non-instantaneous at first (compared to average shooters where bullets are fired directly when clicking), but opens up for much more tactical and “realistic†combat, as well as manual blocking. Blocking Active blocking/parrying is a very difficult feature to handle in a MMO due to server response time and network traffic. We’ve had to make several compromises (like attack-speed and the chance to auto-block) but are very proud to have a working manual blocking-system. Blocking is done by holding the right mouse button. It takes approximately 1/4 of a second to enter “blocking-state†(raising your shield or weapon). Likewise, it takes about the same time to exit blocking when you release RMB. It’s pretty fast, but not instant. Holding RMB slowly drains stamina, and so does every blow you manage to block. Blocking will absorb damage (but the shield or weapon used to block will sustain damage). When blocking, there are three different outcomes: 1. If you are struck from “behindâ€, blocking will not help at all. 2. If you are struck from the “front†or “sideâ€, blocking will absorb only a small amount of damage. 3. If you manage to block the blow with the actual shield- or weapon-mesh, you’ve made a Perfect Block. A Perfect Block drains less stamina, reduces the damage done to your shield/weapon, and gives you a chance to follow up the block with a special counter-attack if you time it really well. When holding RMB, an alternate attack can be triggered by LMB. (If you are using a shield for example, this will trigger a shield-bash.) Auto-blocking Most weapons and shields will give you a small chance (modified by a skill, of course) to auto-block incoming blows. An auto-block happens instantaneously, and is there to compensate for not being able to block instantaneously yourself. Dual-wielding One-handed weapons may be combined with a shield or another one-handed weapon (or for instance torches). If a shield is equipped, it will automatically be used for blocking by RMB instead of the weapon (although the weapon might still be used by the auto-blocking system.) When dual-wielding two weapons, tapping a direction and then LMB will “charge†the corresponding weapon. When charged, simply releasing LMB will make a standard attack, but tapping RMB will instead execute two quick strikes in a row. Shooting Shooting is of course aim-based. Unfortunately it’s too early to tell if we will be able to have simulated trajectories and arcs, but if it’s in any way doable we will. Armor and Hitboxes We are excited to announce that we’ve managed to have as much as 10 individual hitboxes(!) per character in the Alpha. This means very accurate hit-detection, and also that the armor of each body part is used when calculating damage. Additional effects for striking different parts may be added later (such as greater chance for knockback when hit on legs or feet, critical hits on head, chance of being disarmed when hit on hands etc.), but so far only damage is in. On a side note, equipping and un-equipping armor pieces take time, and although it isn’t as slow as in real life it’s definitely not recommended to do during combat. Magic The majority of spells that deals with real-time PvP have been classified as “Battle Magicâ€. By reducing the number of Battle Spells (to about 20), we’ve managed to work out a system where strategy, tactics, actions and reactions define the outcome in a mage-duel. There are very few, if any, “buffs/debuffsâ€. There are very few types of damage or resistances in PvP (no fire, water, earth, wind, holy, unholy etc.). In short, you have to have good coordination and you must really try to read your opponent to be successful. In many ways, it’s comparable to old UO (The Battle Magic is separated from the other Magic Schools that deals with semi- or non-direct PvP magic, like summons, enchantments, music etc. Also, in PvE creatures will deal different types of damage and there will be different kinds of resistances and spells to affect them. But those systems will not interfere with the PvP.) We are currently evaluating two types of spell casting: 1. The first system is based on targeting, where you switch between the targets in your Target List. Some spells are simply auto-aiming, some requires that you face the opponent, and some requires that you actually aim and “hit†them. 2. The second system is based on aiming-only, like a FPS. The first system means that once you’ve targeted your opponents, you have to use coordination (and sometimes aiming) to be successful, but in a way it’s less “fps-interactiveâ€. The problem with the second system is that aiming-only gets very twitch-based and more like a shooter. Also, the number of Combat Spells will probably have to be even more reduced - compare it to a FPS-game where you have to keep track of 20+ weapons and how to counter them while moving around  This will definitely be tested and worked on during this phase. Mounted combat We have worked hard with the first-person view on mount, which is what we are using now in the Alpha. This also means there’s a good chance there won’t be a third-person view in MO at all. Mounted combat works in exactly the same way as described above, although the control scheme is a little bit different. You can use different stances, attack, block, shoot, dual-wield and cast spells etc. The higher the velocity of your mount, the more damage is added to your strikes as well as an increased chance to knock opponents over. Hitboxes are separated, meaning you can hit either the mount or the rider. Fatalities, Mercy and Death If the last blow that hits you and makes you reach 0 HP isn’t extremely heavy (which would instead result in a spectacular bloodbath), you will enter a semi-unconscious state where you are only able to speak. Your opponent may hit you once more and then you die - perhaps s/he even decides to end it in a really theatrical way - or s/he may decide to spare or bargain with your life. If you are left alone, you will eventually regain a couple of HP but be much weakened. |
| I *still* hate Brett Favre. | |
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| Sephs | Jun 16 2009, 07:20 PM Post #28 |
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KHATIB I HATE NIGGERS, I NEED A GAME WHERE I CAN KILL NIGGERS |
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"The strongest must rule if we are to survive" - Darth Malak | |
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| Voyevoda | Jun 16 2009, 07:22 PM Post #29 |
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RIP to the king of pop
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Resident evil 5 is the game for you then. 
Edited by Voyevoda, Jun 16 2009, 07:22 PM.
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| Sephs | Jun 16 2009, 08:10 PM Post #30 |
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OMFG HEAVEN NILLING ZOMBIE KIGGERS |
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"The strongest must rule if we are to survive" - Darth Malak | |
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| Lucretius | Jun 16 2009, 10:09 PM Post #31 |
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Instancing is good for a number of reasons... 1) It reduces lag. 2) It levels the playing field. 3) It allows individual skill to mean more in smaller scale combat. First person view is shitty for a number of reasons... 1) Your field of vision isn't accurately represented with any sized monitor. 2) Spell effects etc... will easily block your vision in even the smallest skirmish. If you disagree with me you're wrong. Learn this. |
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| Voyevoda | Jun 16 2009, 10:19 PM Post #32 |
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RIP to the king of pop
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Has their ever been a first person mmo before? |
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| Ninjerk | Jun 16 2009, 10:27 PM Post #33 |
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Everquest was default 1st-person (I don't remember if you could change it or not). |
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| Khatib | Jun 17 2009, 12:31 AM Post #34 |
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You so CRAAZZYY!!
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In other words, it makes an MMO not an MMO. MMOs aren't about managable numbers. They aren't about having your own protected little PvE area. They aren't about pre-arranged 15 vs 15 fights over pointless objects that reset after every single match to be just like they were before. And yeah, it totally levels the playing field by making it completely gear dependent in a game like WoW or WAR when numbers are always fixed to be exactly the same on both sides. /laff MMOs are about tons of people. Random interactions. PvP is about strife and conflict and politics. About you piss off the wrong people and they will pound you into the ground. About you get too strong and the entire server will start to come after you (and be able to because it will be ALL of them against just you). Not about perfectly balanced matches with the outcome having no real effect on the server (and don't say WAR's did, it reset all the fucking time.) And not about who can cap a flag more than the other team. That's throwaway 15 minute FPS game mechanics, not persistent world true MMO mechanics.
Spell effects will block you vision? You know this how? You've seen the spell effects they're putting in for this game? People leaking beta info have said that blocking with a shield severely cuts off your vision. That is realistic if you ask me. I like that aspect of it. What good does 3rd person view do in WoW or WAR where the "most interactive" and "best designed" and "coolest" and "most challenging" boss fights have your whole raid piled on top of each other, clipping into each other's bodies, clipping into a huge ass boss staring at nothing but it's feet, cramming 10 healers into a corner where they stare at the wall and a UI healing mod? How spectacular is that? How much does that add to gameplay? I've done most of those fights. I've seen them from the melee dps angle and the healer angle. It's fairly underwhelming graphically. Have you never played Morrowing or Oblivion? Mount & Blade? Age of Chivalry? They all use first person and use it quite well for the type of combat that MO is showcasing. I think using your mouse to actually swing AND actually AIM your sword strokes pretty much REQUIRES first person view. I think first person view, as I mentioned before, adds a TON to the stealth aspects of the game, and shit like backstabbing. Remember, this isn't a class based game, this is a skill based game. EVERY character will be able to work up some move quietly, and backstab bonus damage type skills if they are there and that person wants to. It adds a huge element to the game to be able to ambush people based purely on peripheral vision and patience, as opposed to hitting a hotkey for stealth, charging in and popping a "from stealth opener" hotkey. Not getting ass raped will actually be about being a good player, not just whether you're a "clothie" class and randomly run into a rogue with high dmg weapons and a big stealth opener. There will actually be a reason to keep your head on a swivel while you are out grinding mobs. And not just because there will actually be a death penalty, but because you don't want to give someone a huge jump on you. And ANYONE can get that huge jump on you, because again, it's a skill based game. I suppose I could go look for your app on the old boards, but that would take too much effort. You must be one of those people who started MMOs with WoW and thinks there is no other way to play an MMO but like WoW and it's ilk... WAR, AoC, etc. Carebear death penalties, instanced dungeons that take away all community competition, instanced PvP that doesn't mean dick shit aside from e-peen. You know what real PvP is? Look at EVE. Look at alliances like BoB who are years and years old, and start picking on an alliance like Goonfleet, who is a bunch of noobs. They stirred up the hornets nest, and GF came after BoB with hundreds of throwaway ships. BoB would brag about their 100 kills to 15 losses battles, but the truth was, they were losing 3x the cash every time they went 100:15 on those throw away ships. It might look good if all you do is fight 15v15 and you want an epeen/who-has-the-best-gear/pointless-stat battle to determine who you think the "winner" is. But in real PvP on a real sandbox server, it's not about that. It's about having friends. It's about actual coordination with your peeps. It's about SO much more that makes sacrificing a little lag WAY more than worth it to get real fights over real conflict areas, instead of just running some bullshit WSG over and over and over some more. Again, you're a fucking idiot. Of course, you're one of those people who thought spam dotting and getting top stats was more important than ANYTHING else in WAR, so why am I surprised you don't have a clue what a real MMO and real old school MMO PvP is about? Edited by Khatib, Jun 17 2009, 12:36 AM.
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| I *still* hate Brett Favre. | |
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| Ninjerk | Jun 17 2009, 01:52 PM Post #35 |
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Actually, he thought winning was more important than anything else in WAR. You're referring to Bloc. |
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| Lucretius | Jun 17 2009, 11:45 PM Post #36 |
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Except that its still massive, multiplayer, and online...
Premise: Gear determines the outcome of fights when the numbers are even. Refutation: I've been in undergeared premades that have won based on superior playing ability (and I still am, regularly) The alternative you support: Numbers always win? This is the guild for you, kindly gtfo >>> http://www.ruinwar.com/ At least in an instanced playing field victory is dependent upon something other than logging on. I would rather it be gear dependent (something you have to spend time acquiring) then based on who HAPPENS to have more people log on in a given day. (Of course this is all coming from someone who has played the game, and seen what a zerg guild does to a set of servers.)
Not that you would know though right? Since you played for what? a month? and quit... and then played what? Oh right... nothing. Why are you here again? I've been apart of the best premades in the game, some that were completely responsible for holding off Order assaults at times. When its 500 vs 50 regularly in Open RVR, you could defend yourself in scenarios to push victory points back the other direction, and since we never lost we accomplished just that. The problem with exclusive open world combat is that zerg guilds dominate, which means massive hoards of shitty players concentrate themselves in small areas and overwhelm people... no skill required... just a boring mobile dog pile. Resub and play Dark Crag for a month, destro side, and you'll see why you're wrong.
Again, like you would know. Scenarios make a big difference in WAR.
Spell effects in close combat will be bursts of light and colored beams of magical shit etc..., just like all spell effects in all games ever... so stop pretending it takes a fucking brainiac to recognized well established trends in MMO's. Fail.
I'm not really concerned about the PvE aspects of the game, that kinda shit died for me with games like Baulders Gate and MarrowinD (its actually spelled with a D, not a G, but you played that and remember it really well I'm sure). I'm talking about instanced combat, but if you wanna talk about dungeons... sure... since I've done them all. Dungeons might require you to stand in a corner as you described when you're moving through the first couple of times, but once you've got the gear its all ezmode and you can stand basically anywhere. The benefit of 3rd person in a PvP situation compensates for your monitors inability to account for Peripheral vision, and compensates you by allowing you to attain a greater awareness over the playing field since you're not there actually hearing the sounds, smelling the smells, etc... Most of the time game sounds are down low or off, and you're on vent. When other senses are eliminated, they give you a greater sense of vision to assist in your in-game awareness.
Sounds like its going to be a bunch of stationary mother fucks standing around concentrating on the mini-game of swinging their weapons correctly that movement and positioning will be squelched into unimportance.... i.e., sounds like a button mashers paradise. Enjoy it. If I wanted a button mash game I would go back in time and play Street Fighter or MK.
So, more faggoty ganking mechanics? Sounds like thats never been done before.
Sounds more like a faggoty gank-based game. Since full loot will exist, who the fuck would put themselves out to work for it in a fair fight? (Answer: Stupid mother fuckers) Gank squads of a few players here and there will spend all day farming players out in the world by themselves or in small groups. If not because they need the loot, just to grief. Sounds like thats never been done before. I'm sure it will take an attainable amount of 'skill' to fend off the 3-4 guys roaming around ganking you and the others in the area you choose to venture out in... and then get ready for them to epeen on the boards about you getting roflstomped. haha... skill? Now, I'm not defending rogues from WoW, I also think that was a very shitty aspect of that class.
...I guess in WAR friends didn't matter, and guild alliances accomplished nothing. ...I guess guild alliances never coordinated to accomplished sacking a city. It would be worth it, if it were "a little" lag, but in reality its a lot of lag... and you sacrifice a lot of fps... and for what? A zerg.
Haha, you're so fail. Thanks Ninjerk. Also Khatib, would you like a flow chart or a pie graph explaining how fucking retarded you are? Your choice of graphical presentation! Edited by Lucretius, Jun 17 2009, 11:46 PM.
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| Voyevoda | Jun 18 2009, 01:21 AM Post #37 |
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RIP to the king of pop
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| Lucretius | Jun 18 2009, 01:33 AM Post #38 |
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0/10 Does not deliver. GTFO newfag troll, you're about a decade behind in your technique. ...but at least you didn't make an entirely new thread to share your uninteresting bullshit with. Kudos. Edited by Lucretius, Jun 18 2009, 01:34 AM.
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| Voyevoda | Jun 18 2009, 01:48 AM Post #39 |
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RIP to the king of pop
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Man you better lay of the cock, it's fucking you up. |
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| Lucretius | Jun 18 2009, 01:50 AM Post #40 |
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Why don't you make a thread about it, faggot. |
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